J: How does the chemistry of the band developed
S: Well, you know, when we put the tracks together it's
mainly me and Nick, yk we kinda put the tracks together.
So... the two of us reacting together... it started with a
lot of electronic and hip-hop music, between us yk, we were
both inspired by that music, and we ended up doing music
together not really because we choose to, it was just like
unavoidable, yk, the way it happened. And, maybe that's a
good thing.
J: Coming from the early years to now, has anything
happened? Have you chosen some directions to go?
S: I mean you are always looking for new places to take your
music, yk. To me the kind of chemistry, yk, over the years I
guess it's... yk it does change, but it's still pretty much
the same feeling you have to get down to, really. Yeah you
have to, in a way you just have to work harder the older you
get it ik you have to work harder getting beneath the layers
of experience yk...
Music business is kind of... is a bit... is pretty crappy,
yk, like most big businesses... it, it does suck a lot, and
the more you get involved with it, in other words the longer
you're in it (L.: yeah), the harder it is to focus because
you got so much more bullshit in the picture. So you have to
keep going, yk, swim through the bullshit a little bit
further.
L: So is it a problem of creativity or of external eh...
S: I don't think it's a problem, I just think that's the...
that's what makes it worthwhile, is (that) you still have to
struggle to find what it is you wanna do yk. It is not easy
and as long as you don't think it's easy then you'll be
alright. Yk, you need to kinda discipline yourself.
N: Is that a little what happened in this 9 years that...
S: Well it was seven years because eh.. we toured
'Connected' for two years and I think we just burned
ourselves out, burned our batteries out. And, it's not like
we didn't do anything for seven years: we started a
publishing label in {[scienticorrec]jurrasic fly?} yk
We started a record label 'Response' and we put out quite a
few records on that. We did a whole bunch of remixes from
Tricky to Column MCs to Madonna. Yk we did loads of mixing.
We did an album for DJ kit in the DJ kit series. Ehm, we
even Djayed a bit as well, yk, it's not like we were out of
the picture, we just didn't have a record we were satisfied
with, and we're not just going to put out a record straight
on the back of 'Connected' that's crap just to make million
quid(s), yk, that's what it was down to. People said "you
are committing commercial suicide by not putting an album
now." But if you're not feeling it, you ain't feeling it,
and what's the point if you ain't feeling it? That's why you
do it, really, because you feel it. I don't think I'd feel
it anymore if I was sitting out by a pool, although, yk, you
could tempt me phehe ;-) you know I might feel a bit better
phehehehe ;-) I don't know yet phehehe ;-)
J: But what about your fans? ...Ok you feel satisfied but
what your fans...
S: I wouldn't say I'm satisfied, yk, I feel good, I feel
like I've got a purpose, ykm, and a reason for doing what I
do, ehm, I still feel like there's more to be done, yk. it's
like "that's why we are still doing it". Yk it's like to do
music you gotta wanna do it, ik, yk.
J: I sort of meant that...
S: How fans have changed or?...
J: Yes exactly, in this long period...
S: Yes, sure yk, to a degree though. I thought we didn't
have any expectations, the record company may have done
(might have had, dummy). But for us we didn't have any
expectations on what it would be like when we would come
back, because we weren't trying to say that we were coming
back. All we were trying to say was: we, we haven't actually
gone, But we just put a new record out again and no big
deal. We just wanna build what we have done and then from
here build something else. Yk, il, we knew that eh... that a
lot of people wouldn't know who we were so we thought yk
we're like a new band, and to a degree, a lot of people who
come to our shows, especially in Yurop, are people ik who
got into us from 'Deep Down and Dirty', yk they're quite
young, they seem to know a lot of the tracks from 'Deep Down
and Dirty' and ehh... I think that's preety refreshing for
us to think "well yeah, yk, we kind of coming out here [to
Avenches Festival] and we've got to a degree, (where) a
portion of the audience is new listeners". There's
definitely people there who've known, yk, our previous works
for sure, but ehh.. it's still, yk it's refreshing: we did a
gig in Lester and there was like people from seven years old
to ik seventy. I saw an old bloke, an old like Hell's Angel
with, he's an old biker with big grey beard, he was jumping
up and down man! And then there was this young guy with a
little kid on his shoulders and they were both like yk.
N: just felt like what you were transmitting them
S: I just think it's like that ykm it's just how it is, and
yk we tried to put all of our energy live and I think if
anybody can feel an energy (then) they don't have to like
any particular (kind of) music in a way. Yk, it's like, I
mean Thin Lizzy they had an energy, I'm not a heavy metal
fan but like, I thought Thin Lizzy had an energy, I mean I
remember their records eheh ...
L: But now that you're successful and you made all this
money don't you... think it's better that you put your music
on the internet, yk, with all this Peer2peer and Napster...
S: Well, I should correct you on a few points there.
(laughs)
L: eheheh, I'm coming from Israel so I'm not acquainted
with...
S: Coming from where?
L: Israel, that's a peaceful place.
S: Israel ok, it's a little bit of a misconception yk (L:
Yah). That's ehh... we've done alright yk, we live off, yk,
our work, it's supports us but... There's no way I could
afford to ehh stop, like, let go for six months because yk
I've got children, I'm not a millionaire by any stretch of
the imagination, yk, I'm definitely, yk, I'm looking at: "I
want to put out a new record, I have to put out a new record
and I need to make a new record", I've got so many good
reasons for making music that I could run a list of (this
good reasons) all day. Yk, so that's a slight misconception
Ik it's one (misconception) people have about when they hear
that you've made a record that (has) done well, yk it's like
that, although Ik there is a lot of money, yk, you do hear
of people, like Fred Durst and people like that they all
live in huge mansions and shit.
J: yah and they show it out that they really have... (a lot
of money)
S: and it really is pretty yk, the amount of money that ehh,
the people make in the music business is pretty hideous. yk
it's like what football is in England you kinda think "what
is up with Manchester United man" and ind it's just too many
haircuts and too much money! Ykm, there's like, there's all,
they think they're like... they're all in 'Hello!' magazine
ykm like, {the 'Glamour' models just} about. This... has
gone too far yk so I'm glad that we can make music and do
the music we wanna make, survive off making it and make
money from it, which is, a real bonus when you think about
how it was when you started. yk
L: Yah, because you live off what you like to do
S: Yeh exactly, yeh. Yeh, but everything in life has its up
side and its down side, yk, your life has got its up sides
and its down sides, and it's the same with mine, it's just
that yk, like, nobody sees it, but, ind you gotta be very
thankful for to me it's like "I'm doing things now that I
dreamt of doing when I was half my age, and to think
that...
L: But when you were half your age you didn't have kids.
Are you satisfied with your family life?
S: But to still be doing things I dreamt of doing when I was
half my own age, ykm (L: Yah), and like having a family as
well, yk il...
L: Not giving this part of your life I mean...
S: Well you, it's not a matter of that, this is like, this
is my profession man, this is like yk, it's my way of life
yk and that's all it's no big deal, il that's what I chose
to do in life and il it's a dream yk it's really difficult
sometimes, but it's a dream: it's great and it makes you
love everything even more, 'cause yk I'm away from home and,
I do appreciate seeing my family and stuff yk. It's
important not to take shit for granted, because yk anybody
could say "the grass is greener where they are", anybody
could say that, but look at how many unhappy rich people
there are ykm it really isn't the answer. Ind there's got to
be something else fulfilling your life yk... Because I meet
people who are happy and they got nothing, in fact I
remember when I had nothing, and I was pretty... I wasn't
satisfied but I was happy. And satisfied doesn't necessarily
mean happy does it? To me I'd be depressed if I was
satisfied
Coz ik the moment I'm satisfied, I've kinda come to an end,
ykm?
N: Because then you don't expect anything else.
S: Well yes well, what else have you got to do then? You
gotta constantly work on looking for new things to do yk.
L: What do you think is the better way for a new artist,
like to find an old artist to educate him and... 'grow him
up'? or grow up by yourself, try to fight the mu...
S: I couldn't tell you, I think everybody has to find their
own way, yk,
L: Are you trying to seek for a new artist to educate?
S: Well, I don't know if I'm much of a teacher, first, to be
honest with you. I mean, I've... I'd give it a go if someone
said... if someone thought they could learn something from
me, then I'll be willing to show them, yk, that's why I
couldn't think of doing any... having any useful purpose
it's just by doing what I do. And, and, rest it there yk.
ykm, it's like if I don't try to do that then I'm kind of
hiding from it. And yk maybe people learn from what you do,
from your mistakes on record as well as your successes on
record. Yk, it's always funny to be learnt isn't that?
L: Though there's always some random element into it, you
never know what will succeed and what will not.
S: Yeah, but you see it's difficult isn't it yk, it's like
in a way you just have to go out and find your own
experiences and, get your own experiences and that's really
the best way to learn.
L: So what did we learn in these 50 years that records are
being sold around the world. I mean it's not.. it's quite a
new phenomenon that we have CDs and cassettes and everyone
can listen to your music, throughout the world without you
even knowing that these places exist?
S: Well, yk like our stuff is probably getting downloaded
off the internet for free all the time anyway. and yk all
over Eastern Yurop people bootleg our music. We don't, yk il
I think it's fair enough, yk, I quite like the bootlegs, yk
it's.. I'm not kind of interested in them - if someone has
got a vibe on pressing up some of our records for himself -
it's like, "well good luck" yk il, It's all relative, ykm,
you can still make a living out of it, yk, and I'm not gonna
start saying "well, now I'm not gonna let you make a living
out of it". It's like, it didn't cost me anything to make
the music. Well, it did yk coz we had to build this studio
and stuff like that and I put, I put kind of most of my
energy into doing it. But you know it's a pleasure for me to
do it, and I find it quite humbling that someone would, yk,
would think that he could make some money out of a bit of
music I've made. Yk in our area of the world we can make
money out of making music of our own so if people can't get
the music then you gotta get it however you can get it. I
would do that ykm. I'll tape it off the radio.
L: But if I got it right I...
S: And if I can't get it I'll buy it, ykm I don't mind
buying music if I got the money, and I don't think other
people do, really. yk
L: If I got it right you said, you invented a certain kind
of music and noone could learn from you,
S: No no, I didn't say that.
L: Nah no, but, your creation, I mean it has no succession,
the next artist who would like to create his own art
couldn't learn from you except for coming to your live
concerts or listening to your CDs.
S: But yk, I never, I never met {Sliced Stone} or Bob Marley
or Run DMC or Public Enemy, yk but they all played a huge
parts in my musical experience. I never saw Led Zeppelin,
never met any of those people, but without them, I would,
yk, I'd, I'd, my whole musical experience would be pretty
empty. Yk, I learned just by listening to records and
feeling music and feeling inspired by music, yk now it's
like, that's, (N: The Heritage is the music itself)
the record, the record, the actual music itself that's. The
beauty of music is that the music is what will teach you,
yk, it's like you just gotta listen to it and realize what
the feeling is. Ykm, and then, and then, do a bit of hard
work yourself and learn your trade, however you need to
learn it maan. If you're a guitarist, you go and find
someone who plays the guitar, and he'll teach you how to
play the 12-bar blues, you start {theen?} to get yourself
chord book don't you? Yk, if you're a rapper, you listen to
rap music, you go down and you like live their life,
really, that's the only way to learn it is by living their
life. Yk, you can't expect it to be handed to you on a plate
like you go to college, and maybe some people do go to
college and learn how to do music, but it was never the way
for me. It's just by getting your own experience and a bit
of help from whoever would give it to you.
L: So music is in part, part of your life and part of...
Nowadays that we have all these CDs and all these samplers
then we can electronic music, 50 years ago it would have
been a twelve string guitar, just because the instruments
have changed, and the music change, changes with them. So,
how would you define this connection between the heritage of
music and the development of... I mean the music following
new technologies and new kinds of instruments.
S: I, I think things have to change & develop, yk il,
otherwise we'd all be sitting round playing mandolins or yk,
il, yk, it's, for what it is the thing about music it's that
it should evoke the spirits in people and should feel an
energy from the music, yk and you can get that from people
playing African drumming and singing spiritual kind of songs
about nature or whatever people could sing along to just a
drum beat or you can have some guys, like, running drum
loops and playing synthesizers and yk. It's all about the
kind of feeling and the spirit you drum up with music,
that's to me what it is, il. I read a book once about, well
I tried to read it, about native American Indians , and they
looked at singing as a form of power, it's empowered people.
Yk when you sang they gave you a power and... I believe in
something like that yk, yk, the kind of outer clothing of
music might change and people might get on to a new ride yk,
like ska, yk blue beat to ska to rock steady to roots to, yk
and then you got ragga and ykm it just goes on and on and
on... But there's a whole spirits that comes from the very
roots of reggae music from all, all the way back to [minto]
and all that kind of stuff that I'm pretty ignorant about.
But yk, the roots of it is of spirits ykm, il that's what
music is about yk, you wanna see somebody performing and
means it. You don't wanna... I don't want to see somebody
who's just kind of doing, it kind of faking it by to give a
bit of style dancing or something, yk
L: Because that's what we see on the streets, and if you've
got a free concert at Hôtel de Ville de Paris what you
would see is this senegalian band waving their flags and not
giving you authentic senegalian music.
S: Well, I don't really just it like that yk, it's, wherever
you go it's, I try to see something good in stuff, yk, even
if it's just a pop [juer] I'll do a PA yk , il well, yk at
least they're doing some music I guess. I just think, I
don't know about what you were talking about, I just think
that modern music it's become a bit processed and record
companies are trying to put the music together themselves in
order just to come up with a formula that will make money.
And I think that is making music dry, yk.
L: What are you doing to cope with that? You personally, I'm
not...
S: Nothing, I'm doing nothing about it, I'm just making
music, man il. What does it matter to me, ykm, il I just
think it's, it's the new evolution of that side of music yk,
that's where it's gone now. (L: That's bad.) So, well I
think that's a bit dry myself, but yk there's actually still
a lot of really good music out there. Yk il a kind of I just
think it just makes obvious more obvious what is shit and
what isn't shit.
L: Because once people used to say yk, why the record
companies invest all this money on buying all this fancy
equipment to make good records and now that you can buy for
a thousand bucks good records and just sell it over the
internet, why do you need record companies, why do you need
to [drive after market].
S: Well, yk maybe you don't anymore (L: A-ha), Eh yk I guess
things are changing and don't' think that'll happen, I think
big record companies are gonna be around for a while and
independence yk, because there's a lot to do with putting up
your own music and I think it's good to have a bit of, a bit
of backing and a bit of help, personally, yk. I think it's
good that people can do their own thing get their own music
together put it out on the internet, makes things pretty
fast moving, yk, makes it open to any individual to make
music. It's quite, it's quite a freedom. I think it's, I
think it's a lot to do with the future, yk.
L: But then in order to get help you have to sell yourself,
other than have some marketing company doing it for you.
S: What I could say? It's yk. So I was reading a thing by
eh, an independent hip hop label, I can't remember the name
of it, but he was saying after the September 11th thing that
happened last year no major record company could put out
music for a while and people won't go out buying that sort
of record. But the independence, he was doing eh, the kind
of loads of people buying his records for some reason ,yk
it just changed things and that's what the world is like,
things change and more weird ways that you never expect and
what was totally unthinkable once becomes the normal. It's
like listening to Björk, yk 15 years ago, you'd have
gone "Well, that's weird singing", yk it's pretty abstract
the way she sings, it's beautiful, but people wouldn't be
able to deal with it 15 years ago. But now, yk , the record
sold millions and millions and she's a household name and
it's pretty incredible.
L: And now she's using her name, for instance, to fight
death sentences in, in America and Massive Attack are using
their name to fight the war against Iraq. Have you got any
such political aspirations that you are trying to ...[[]]]
with your music?
S: I guess if yk, people asked us to do charity events
sometimes and when we can we do them. Yk we're not that
political a band yk, il, we just deal with human topics
really and try to do our music ,yk, we are not trying to be
...particularly wave anybody's flag in particular we just
believe in that people have rights all over the world and
that's what we try to make our music stand for. It's yk the
soul and something yk, we try to reach some kind of spirit
and put an energy into what we do and hope the people get
something good from it.
L: The people who can buy your records?
S: Or people who can bootleg them or people who can hear it
on the radio, yk just how people get something positive of
it. Yk, a positive frame of mind and a positive direction is
sometimes the key element in a person's life. If you ain't
got that it doesn't matter where you live, yk , your life is
gonna feel like hell. So, if things come along to us and
want our help, yk , then we're usually pretty willing to
give it. Eh, I don't really know if we are that a big a band
to be of much help, ykm. It's not like with [Blooody Person]
or Madonna ykm, (L: Or with Faithless) No, exactly so, yk,
il we're not doing that because there probably wouldn't be
much point at the moment 'cause we're not that well known a
group.
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